tv U.S. House of Representatives CSPAN November 9, 2009 5:00pm-8:00pm EST
bombshell evidence in the case against casey anthony. traces of chloroform on a bottle and a syringe where caylee's body was found. investigators found high levels of chloroform in the trunk of casey's car. does this add up to a slam dunk for prosecutors take a look at this ad. tv show "gossip girl." going for it now. looking forward to now a threesome. i don't care what they say. this is a teen audience, you are encouraging porn behavior? call in. 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mail us
cnn.com/primenews or send a text at hlntv. just start your message with the word prime. it is your chance to be heard. welcome. this is "prime news." i'm mike galanos. huge news in the casey anthony case. chloroform, how it could possibly be linked to caylee's death. chloroform was found at the crime scene. found in a syringe. here is why it is important. months before the 2-year-old disappeared someone searched for how to make chloroform on the anthony's home computer, cops found high levels of the stuff in the trunk of casey's car. the same car casey wouldn't let her father near. >> i got within three feet of my daughter's car and the worst odor that you can possibly smell in this world. and i've smelled that odor before. it smelled like a decomposed
body. >> there you go. does all this add up to a slam dunk for prosecutors? we take your calls honey honey. pam bondy joining us, defense attorney mike iglarsh and mike brooks. mike, let's start with you. chloroform found at the scene. is there a way to prove that chloroform caused little caylee's death? >> well, mike, we don't have much that was left of caylee. unfortunately, the poor little girl was so badly decomposed. mike, as i said, going back months ago there is evidence we have not heard about as of yet. it keeps coming out. this is some extremely important evidence, mike, because you had this gatorade bottle. inside that gatorade bottle was liquid. also inside that gatorade bottle was a plastic bag and inside the plastic bag was a syringe.
inside that syringe was the same liquid in the bottle. i'm reading from the fbi report. ethanol, water, chloroform and about one, two, three, four kinds of testosterone. basically looked them up. it has to do with anabolic steroids, all injectables. >> pam, let's go to you. chloroform found at the crime scene. chloroform found on caylee's clothes, high levels in the trunk of casey's car. come on. this is what the prosecution needs, right? >> it sure is. to tie back the chloroform searches on the internet, how to make chloroform along with the neck breaking ties this case in together beautifully. you know i hate to use the word slam dunk. i never will but this is about as close as it is getting. the case is getting stronger and
stronger for the prosecution. you can tie it to the internet searches, to the car. >> doesn't that tell you premeditation if you have searches for chloroform three months before caylee's death or days experience? >> yes. that is what helps you, the internet searches to give you the premeditation. >> all right, counselor, argue away, mark. >> i don't give a slam dunk. it is another piece of compelling evidence in this circumstantial evidence case. more compelling or more closer to slam dunk would be that her fingerprints or dna would be found on the syringe or on the vial. there is no evidence of that. i assure you the defense is going to concede okay, someone murdered this child. they are going to point their finger, perhaps, i'm predicting at the ex or zanaida.
>> the results that just came back in this 2,000 pages comes as a result of the chemistry unit at the fbi lab. mark, as you know, at the lab you go from one part of the lab to the next part to the next part. we have not gotten reports back from latent fingerprints which is going to be a report. >> absolutely. >> so more to come. >> that's right. >> what are the odds the fingerprints will still be on there? my guess is the defense is going to have a field day with the lack of evidence. my suggestion to the prosecution be ready for those arguments from the defense lawyers. they are coming. >> these are great prosecutors. >> let's listen because casey anthony, mark's favorite person, leonard padilla, the guy who bailed him out. he had an associate who dealt with casey anthony. those two had a conversation. casey talked to her about chloroform. let's listen. >> i bring up ghb.
i don't know if you have heard of it. i've used it before. i know a lot about it. they call it a date rape drug now. i brought that up and asked her if she'd ever heard of it. and if i said if you heard of lmsqp. she would say yeah. she agreed with everything. i said it is in a lick kid form you can take a cap and you are out and she said like roofies. she said yeah, or chloroform. >> she is like a chloroform expert, it appears. internet searches. she is talking about it there. >> that is what was on her mind. that is why this case is being tied in so perfectly in circumstantial pieces. the internet searches, her discussing the chloroform. there is chloroform found in the trunk of the car. we know in the trunk of the car they found the paper towels that it appeared someone cleaned up the trunk of the car with
1-877-tell-hln. ginger is with us in north carolina. >> caller: i have a question about the chloroform that was found. my question is, do they have a way of determining if the chloroform was homemade with chemicals or if it was purchased as chloroform? >> it is very, very difficult to get chloroform, a commercial grade anywhere. it has been banned from medical use for a long time. you can go online and it is not that hard to make chloroform. in the fbi lab reports said an odor consistent with cleaning fluid. you can use bleach, acetone, that would smell like cleaning products. >> which takes us back to the computer searches three months before caylee goes missing. this facebook comment from vanessa. all these signs point to a slam dunk, sorry, pam.
that doesn't explain how the body suddenly showed up while casey was in jail. pam, i want to pick up on a point you were making. it is gruesome. coffin flies that feed on decomposition. found in the trunk of the car and the crime scene. does that prove the body has been from june or july and not moved. >> yes. these bug scientists study maggots and flies, anything that is found around a decomposing body. it is proven science. what they are saying these flies demonstrate that are found with her body that they had been there for months and months and months. completely inconsistent with the defense theory that the body was moved. as well as what we said in the past, i'm sorry this is so graphic, there were roots growing up through her little body, the skeleton of her body that the plant experts, the
botanists are going to tell us had been there for many, many months as well. >> to a general topic, mark, how much does that hurt the defense case if proven science puts it says that body had been there since june or july? >> it doesn't hurt the case. it doesn't help it. they want to say the body was put there when she was in jail to establish an alibi. their defense is going to remain she didn't do it. someone else did. the chloroform searches were done from her computer. perhaps her ex made those searches because they found stuff on his computer. they are going to point the finger at anyone because that is reasonable doubt. >> do you use the chloroform to say it was accidental? we talked about it a lot the chloroform theory, casey was hell bent on going to party and she gave caylee chloroform and that caused her death. does that give you the accidental argument or not?
>> absolutely. probably in my gut i think what might have happened. they are going to take one theory and run with it. they are going to direct them to get full acquittal. it was someone else. zanaida and her people or her ex-boyfriend. >> but there is no zanaida. let's not forget that. >> they can go under the theory of felony murder in the course or commission of aggravated child abuse. the prosecutors can argue giving her the chloroform regardless if she wanted to kill her is aggravated child abuse is first degree felony murder. the suspect in the ft. hood massacre awake and talking. did he know some of the 9/11 hijackers?
hijackers attended. at that time a radical imam preached there. did he know the hijackers? was he associated with them at all? >> james:ing us, tom kaniff, defense attorney and former j.a.g. who served in iraq, donald clark and scott huddleson for the "san antonio express news." we reached out to hasan's attorney. no comment. he says he has asked investigators not to question hasan and doesn't know if he has been medically cleared to talk. as an investigator, how do you handle this? he is awake and talking. do you say why did you do this or how do you handle it? >> mike n the course of an investigation there are not that many times you go right to the person who is accused and get information. investigators have to go in all directions from ft. hood and figure out who they should be talking to.
in fact, it is a lot of times much better to go outside and get the information so that you, as the investigator, you have the knowledge and therefore, if you do get a chance or if the suspect does talk you know when they are lying to you k, when they are telling you something unbelievable. >> the question is why. we are finding out he might have unveiled his motive out of the gate this is private first class joseph foster, a survivor, shot in the hip. here is his account as he witnessed the shooting. >> i was sitting in what they call station 13. it is where we get basically our final outs of our system. and i was sitting in about the second row back when the assailant stood up, yelled allah
akbar in arabic and opened fire. >> as an investigator, where do you take that? what is your next step? >> you know, mike, again, i have said from day one that you cannot take this case or most any other case on what you see right at that point in time there. you have to expand your investigation. certainly under this circumstance, here is a person that was disgruntled. you probably have that little bit of information. you have to move to the neighborhood and to other places where he may have been, where he was born. that is why they have to bring in all the agencies, all the law enforcement agencies with the appropriate military people in there as well. >> okay. as we've mentioned, hasan's mother funeral was held at a mosque where 9/11 hijackers attended. how does that figure in? >> this is not a who dun it
case. there is very little doubt who the shooter is. a lot of what the investigators are looking at is potential motives. when this case first broke there was a lot of talk of stresses of him being in the military. and it comes out he has never been deployed. he is a high-ranking military officer. he has a prestigious degree and occupation. we are moving towards was this radical islam at play here? there is a lot to suggest that. first his suggestion with anwar aulaqi, the imam who preached to two or three of the september 11 hijackers. he attended the same mosque and had his mother's funeral at that mosque. there is a post attributable to
him where he compares a suicide bomber to someone who falls on a grenade to protect his fellow soldiers. there is information coming out showing this could be someone following a very misguided version of the islamic faith. >> we are going to have much more on the suspect. stunning revelations. we want to remember the victims. the 13 lives claimed tragically. let's pay tribute to them right now.
welcome back to "prime news." this is what is going to be airing on "gossip girl." a threesome. they say the target audience is adults. the show targets teens. call in, 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. this story we continue to follow. it is a gruesome story. help me out here, how is a suspected serial killer a good boyfriend? anthony sowell charged with aggravated murder, rape, felonious assault, 11 bodies
found in his house. he lived with the mayor's niece in that home. >> i wonder why would he do this. he took care of me, good care of me. i never thought no bodies was in the house. >> did you smell anything funny in the house? >> yeah. at first he said it was his stepmother downstairs. and then he told me it was ray's sausage. >> joining me to talk about it stazy kaiser and cleveland city councilman zach reed. we will take your calls. 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. stacy, when we hear this, how could someone be accused of killing at least 11 but on the other hand you have a girlfriend saying he took good care of me. how is that? >> well, taking good care of somebody is very relative.
good care of in her mind is he fed her and put a roof over her head. i would want to get to the bottom of what was so great about their relationship. >> michelle, in your years of covering cases, have you ever heard anything like that? >> no. >> someone accused of something so heinous and someone saying good boyfriend? >> no. i sure haven't. this case just blows my mind, really. to have this many bodies literally rotting inside of the house. one of the victims was reported missing in 2007 and could have been in the house for as long as two years. up until that point it is very disturbing. just got word that the eighth and the ninth victims have been identified. i want to give you their names right now. janice webb and kim yvette smith. cadaver dogs are searching through the neighborhood to see if there are more bodies.
>> let's bring in zach reed, councilman, cleveland. michelle mentioned the body could have been there since 2007, as gruesome as that is. we have heard people say the smell could have been there at least three years, which takes us back to '06. you tried to do something about the smell. what happened? >> i received a phone call in 2007 from a resident who said someone who lives across the street saying there is an odor in the neighborhood and it smells like a dead person. >> what action did you take? >> we contacted the health department. that is the reason i will continue to call for independent evaluation to see how we get a call from a resident to the health department to finding 11 bodies in that community because as i've said, it wasn't the smell of rotten meat and she didn't say it was the smell of a
dead animal. she said clearly it smelled like a dead person. >> because it sounds like ray's sausage erroneously has been the blame for the last couple of years? >> oh, clearly. i apologized to ray. he didn't let me get the last word out. we both understood for years we believed it was ray's sausage. the smell was clearly the smell of rotten dead flesh. throughout that entire community. >> wow. michelle, as we've covered this, what are people saying about that? how long does that smell go back and what was being done? councilman tried something. did others try or was it all on ray's sausage to change their pipes or whatever they did? >> the councilman and i have had numerous conversations about this off the air. i have contacted the director of the health department. he said they receive 20,000 complaints a year.
the one complaint in 2007 where the councilman's office did call in they don't have a record of. they do have a record of a complaint called in in 2008 from one block over. they sent an inspector out to the neighborhood. they did an air quality test. it came up negative. this is one block over a neighbor is complaining and then they moved on. i talked to the owner and one of the relatives from ray's sausage factory. what they told me is they've spent thousands of dollars replacing the sewage lines the grease traps to try to make this smell better because they were told from numerous people throughout the neighborhood and community that it was probably coming from their site. ray's sausage factory, they have a daily inspector that goes there every day for an hour and federal inspections to comply with. out of those inspectors and people for all those years that they didn't have -- they couldn't find the source of the
problem. >> that is why i continue to say that the system itself is broken. when you have so many individuals from the public sector that have touched this particular location and not one of these individuals, including myself, could figure out that this smell was not from rotten meat. it was not from dead animals. it was from rotten, dead, decaying bodies. >> councilman, we are finding out the mayor's niece lived with this guy in that home. any comment from the mayor? how is the mayor reacting to these revelations? >> anybody who came in interaction with this individual and came out of that house alive is lucky. the mayor's niece, somebody in the neighborhood. you were lucky to get out of of that house. this is a mad man who deserves to be in jail. >> when we come back, we will listen to someone who dealt with
>> caller: i have a question. if he was a registered sex offender and going on websites, aren't they supposed to be monitoring that? >> that is one of the first questions we had. he started up on these websites a month after he got out of jail. michelle, what do we know about that? that is infuriating. he was monitored once a year and was going on sex fetish websites right after he got out of jail? >> the sheriff's office said anthony sowell was required to check in person with them once a year. he complied with those check ins. fast forwarding to this year, the requirements changed where he had to check in once every 90 days. when investigators checked on him on september 22nd, that was a random spot check. according to those particular requirements and digging in more, i am waiting for word back
if exactly they were allowed to go in and search his computer. i know they were not allowed to go inside of the home. it does vary from state to state. >> you mentioned that. we want to hear the riveting account from tanya dass. she alleges this man anthony sowell attacked her. here is her account of the attack and how she survived. >> he caught me off guard. he leaped on me like this. >> so you are on the bed? >> i'm on the corner of the bed. he grabbed me and pushed me back up on the bed like this. i'm trying to finagle up out of it. i couldn't. i hold my breath and tried to take my -- stiff my neck where he couldn't -- but he had a grip
on my throat. and my eyes started, really, i started couldn't breathe, couldn't talk. he said, knock on the floor three times if you want to live. i did like this. he was still choking me. he was like, you could be another in the street dead and nobody give a [ bleep ] about you. i started crying. why you got to act like that, tony. oh, you think i'm playing? take your clothes off. >> she, again, obviously survived that. she fell asleep, woke up the next morning, gave him a story ability how she had to go to the hospital to see her daughter. she escapes and is dealing with tremendous guilt. the tears were flowing, susan candiotti had to hug her to console her in that interview. people wonder why not report this. let's start this.
what is hr mindset this. >> she may have not reported it because she was afraid of the consequences on herself or he might come back and kill her. i think there is another piece. she did go to where he lived. and there is some shame in that. even though she did not ask to be victimized there is shame in the fact she walked into his house and was there and available. >> what about the guilt she is dealing with now, stacy? >> at the same time she is counting her blessings. she believes and knows if she had come out sooner she might have saved some lives. >> councilman, are you concerned that some of the victims familiars are going to -- they want answers. they want to know how a guy like this was able to do what he did for a number of years. >> not only the victims, the whole community. the whole community. the nation is sitting around wondering how it was allowed to go on for this long. when you look at the common
denominator, race had something to do with it. no doubt. the common denominator is the addiction. the addiction of these young ladies th ladies that got lured into this house. how do we look at individuals who are addicted and treat them when they become missing. >> well put, councilman. we appreciate it. thanks so much. coming up, we are going to change the mood as we talk about the show "gossip girl." tonight's episode is going to feature a threesome. that's great. network television.
tonight's show. >> i have a surprise for you. >> why are you still dressed? >> on three, one, two, three. >> there you go. grab the family and get the popcorn for the threesome. the booze, the sex the om3. not one night here. tonight the threesome. next week they are going to have the flashbacks. really milking it for the ratings. you are telling me teens aren't going to watch this? they say their audience is adults. give me a break. come on. 1-877-tell-hln. joining me to talk about it. we welcome back kim sarafin, senior editor for "in touch." this is broadcast tv. this is the cw, not a major network.
shouldn't this be reserved for cable, mtv after 10:00? >> "gossip girl" has never painted itself as a companion show to the disney channel. it has never been if you like hannah montana you'll love "gossip girl." they had racy billboards about a year or so whatever. they had omg and added an extra letter. their target demographic is 18 to 34. the median age of their viewer is 27. on some of the billboards that got attention they said mind-blowingly inappropriate, comments critics. it has never been a show intended for young tween girls. >> they know that's who is watching. yes. they are probably loving we are talking about it right now. >> of course. >> they know the tween girls are watching this. it is a shameless ploy, to me,
for the ratings that you go this far? threesome. we are advocating porn behavior on network television, kim? >> look, i would be surprised if this episode turns out to be quite as racy as we are anticipating. the billboards and teases for the episodes, you watch the episode it is not quite as racy. it would be tough to be a parent of a teenage girl these days or a teenager. it is tough to keep your teenager away from horrible images on tv and the internet. trust me. i would not want to be in that position. i don't have a teenage son or daughter right now. here is a situation where you know what is coming. the super bowl with the janet jackson incident, nobody knew that was coming. this you know is coming. you know the show has never been meant for young girls so at least you have fair warning. >> i agree. as a parent myself. i have a teenager. it can be difficult.
agreed the super bowl was an ambush. that is when i'm trying to watch a football game and this comes up. yes. if i'm turning them loose to watch "gossip think as part of war for turf on television. at what point do we say, it's 9:00 on the network, do what you want. and another side says, no, we want to fight. and at least sound the alarm for some parent out there. at least one might hear. let's get a facebook comment in here, kim. and people wonder why kids are sexting. unreal. well, why not? i suppose if simpson can pose nude for "playboy." >> these images are everywhere. these depictions of sex and alcohol and drugs are everywhere. so to sort of come down on "gossip girl" of all the shows to pick is kind of unfair. or turn on the news every day and see something that's much worse than what you're seeing on
"gossip girl." it is definitely a tough position to be in. >> i feel convicted. >> not you, not your show ever. >> let's get a call -- >> it's all over these images. >> i know. and it is difficult. and it leads to some of this behavior. i don't care, kids like to emulate. there's a study out who say these kids see this stuff on television, and parents are part of the responsibility, but they see it and are going to be sexually active sooner in their lives. we're going to -- let me get one more facebook comment in. this is from donna saying, and your point is? there are a lot of shows that show sex, murder, drug use. is it that much of a surprise? no, i guess it's not. we're going to continue this conversation. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. kim and i coming back after a break.
huge evidence in the case against casey anthony. traces of chloroform on a bottle and a syringe, right where little caylee's little body was found. investigators also found high levels of chloroform in the trunk of casey's car. does this add up to a slam-dunk for prosecutors? call in, 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mail us your thoughts at cnn.com/primenews. or text us at hlntv. just start your message with the word prime. it's your chance to be heard. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com welcome. this is hour number two of "prime news."
i'm mike galanos. huge news in the casey anthony case. we talked about this before, how chloroform could be clinked to little caylee's death. now for the first time chloroform was found at the crime scene. that's what investigators are letting us know. chloroform found in a syringe near little caylee's body. the 2-year-old disappeared, someone searched on the anthonys' home computer how to make chloroform. they found high levels of the stuff in the trunk of casey's car. coincidences or not? is this a slam-dunk for prosecutors? we'll take your calls. 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. joining us to talk about it, pam bondi. also with us defense attorney mike eiglarsh. and mike brooks. chloroform, we've talked about it. mark eiglarsh, i'll start with you. as a defense attorney, are you rattled by this revelation? chloroform? this could be the cause of death? what are you doing with this to fend this off as a defense attorney? >> i don't consider this to be a
slam-dunk. a slam-dunk is a bus load of nuns who finally come forward and say we saw it all happened. we watched her kill and then throw the body away. we've got video to back it up. slam-dunk, closer to slam-dunk would be if her dna or fingerprints were on the syringe. the defense is saying, someone did this, and probably threw the syringe and threw the chloroform out in the field there. but it wasn't casey anthony. i'm not buying it personally. >> it happens to show up in the same area as where they found the little skeletal remains of caylee. come on, mark. >> don't kill the messenger. i'm saying what you're going to hear come game day. is that, again, you've got to prove it was her that did it, as opposed to this hypothetical zenaida, or her ex-boyfriend, who i'm sure they'll point the finger at as doing the chloroform images or not sweet innocent casey. >> there is no zenaida. we already know, there is no
zenaida, gonzalez, period. >> not according to grandma. grandma's going to say, i heard about zenaida all the time. >> let's add up the chloroform angle here. we have three months before little caylee goes missing. chloroform is searched on the anthonys' home computer, how to make chloroform. we have chloroform on little caylee's clothes. high levels of chloroform found in the trunk of casey's car. we know there's decomposition in that car, little caylee's body in there. now we're found chloroform in syringe form right next to the body. this has got to be huge. >> mike, i just think you shot him down completely. hey, you should be arguing this case. you just laid it out. the chloroform -- the searches for chloroform are on the internet in the anthonys' home. chloroform evidence in the trunk.
we're still not talking where casey anthony's childhood friend is the exact same spot they used to hang out and bury their pets when they were younger. now we know there are traces of chloroform, much chloroform found in a gatorade bottle and a syringe at that scene. >> pam, let me stay with you. >> tying it in. >> then we'll let mark in. if you're a prosecutor, you're using this to prove murder one, how? how do you prove to a jury this chloroform was part of a premeditated plan? >> in florida, you can prove first-degree murder in two ways. premeditated or felony murder. and the beauty of our laws is, you can argue it both ways. you don't have to pick one theory. you can charge it first-degree murder. you can argue either it was premeditated. they can say by the internet searches, well in advance, which i believe it was premeditated, or they can argue, as i think the defense -- what mark said is, it was ap accident. she meant to drug her, put her to sleep so she could go out to bars and party.
well, that still could be considered in the course or commission of an aggravated child abuse. if you're committing a crime like that, on a child, and even if the death is accidental, in our state it can still be first-degree murder. >> let's get a call in. beth is with us in kentucky. beth, go ahead. >> caller: hi, mike, how are you? >> good, beth, thanks. >> caller: i actually have two questions. >> okay. fire them out there. >> caller: my first one is, is there any way that any type of prints can be lifted from the bottle that was found? and my second question is, has any -- the components to make chloroform been found in the anthony home? >> okay. we'll let mike brooks handle both those. this was to mark's original point, mike. what are the odds you're going to get any kind of prints? do we know there were no prints on this syringe inside this gatorade bottle? >> we don't know. the reports that have come back are from the chemistry unit from the fbi lab. i've got the report right here. there are no results back from
the latent prints on this particular evidence as of yet. when you send it to the fbi lab in quantico, it goes from one unit, they finish their work, and it goes to another unit. with the chemicals they use, it could destroy evidence already there on that syringe. i doubt if you're going to get any fingerprints on the outside of that bottle. but you could get some off of the syringe. and possibly off the plastic that was inside-open the syringe was inside the plastic bottle. >> we've got to take a break in a minute. items at the anthony home that could help make chloroform? >> they took a number of chemicals, and there are a lot of other things out of the house, have not heard those specifically if any of those chemicals matched what you use to make homemade chloroform. >> we've got calls lined up, facebook comments. we'll let mark defend him, as always. we look again at the cute little shot of little caylee.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. continuing our conversation. new revelations in the casey anthony case. investigators letting us know that chloroform was found at the crime scene. there you see a photo of that evidence. we're taking your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. leslie's with us in south carolina. hey, leslie, go ahead. >> caller: hey, thanks. at the risk of being shot down by your impressive group there, i had a comment and question about the chloroform issue. >> go ahead. >> caller: well, while i'd love to believe this is a definite positive for the prosecution, i'm fairly concerned about what i thought i had heard about testosterone being found with
it. my question is, if casey's prints aren't found, while i believe we can exclude zenaida from this part of it, my fear is the defense will really take this and ram it home that it's probably the boyfriend i believe who posted -- >> hold on. leslie teed you up nicely there. what do you do with the testosterone part of this, mark? >> absolutely. she cannot deny chloroform searches were done on her computer. you keep saying erroneously, mike, that she did the chloroform searches. >> no, did i say that? >> i don't know. >> go ahead. >> a lot of people are saying that. no, absolutely, add in testosterone, add it on his computer, searches done that he might be of questionable character, this is the defense arguing, not me. then you have the other possible suspect beyond zenaida.
she doesn't have to say who did it, just that it wasn't me. don't kill the messenger -- >> she used to use his computer when she was over at his house. i don't believe he was over at their house using the computer there. so is that just a coincidence? oh, he looked up something about chloroform, and then she did also over at her house, mark? i don't know. but it is feasible. we talked about this the other night on "nancy grace." where did this testosterone come from? was it someone gave her this needle to use? was it unwittingly? do we know? >> pam, what do we know about this as a prosecutor? it hamstrings you a little bit. how does that figure in? >> that's where the experts are going to come into play. perhaps testosterone is a by-product of decomposition, we don't know yet. we just learned this information. i think the prosecution's going to have their experts lined up to explain that away. they're going to have to do that. >> let's get carol in from ohio. carol, welcome. your thoughts here?
>> caller: hi, mike. love your show. >> thanks, carol. >> caller: the chloroform is an important piece of evidence, i agree. but let's not forget about the duct tape that is wound tightly around caylee's head, covering her mouth, possibly her nose. this was not an accident. >> good point there. let's go pack to mark on that. mark, duct tape, more damning than the chloroform we're talking about? >> i think it's all just another significant piece of evidence that's going to make things very difficult for the defense. keep in mind the similarity between the two is there's no dna, no fingerprint that specifically links casey anthony to either of those two compelling pieces of evidence. >> we haven't heard, i'll go back again, mark, as i always say, there's more evidence to come. >> hey, mike, my ears are open. i'm listening. >> this is just another layer in that cake that they're baking for. >> let's talk about that duct tape, pam. it's a piece in a puzzle, right? >> it is. >> do you parse it out, which one helps the prosecution more, chloroform, duct tape, or all of the above? >> it all does. that's why the prosecution,
they're going to lay it out piece by piece by piece by piece. when they're arguing premeditation, there's no way you didn't intend to cover her little mouth if she was accidently killed. you cover someone's mouth with duct tape to keep them from wreathing or keep them from screaming. unfortunately tragically that's what happened here. you take that into consideration with all the other factors involved. >> mark, about 20 seconds, go ahead. >> i'll do it in ten. i think this issue is going to be someone else did it. this is a horrible, horrific crime. the state proved their case, but not against this particular person. that's the way the defense is going to make this go. >> okay. >> to be continued. >> i'm sure we'll be talking again soon. as always, guys, we appreciate it. the suspect in the massacre, awake and talking. revelations into his family's past and did he know some of the 9/11 hijackers?
welcome back. this just in. the suspect in the horrific mass shooting at fort hood is awake and talking. major nidal malik hasan is accused of killing 14 people and injuring others. we are learning chilling details about his pant. the funeral for his mother was held at the same mosque with two of the september 11th hijackers attended back in 2001. at that time, a radical imam
preached there. did he know the hijackers? was he associated with them at all? we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about it, tom, defense attorney and former j.a.g. who served in iraq. and special agent in charge. and the staff writer for the "san antonio express news." don, we reached out to hasan's attorney. he's asked investigators not to question hasan and doesn't know if he's been medically cleared to talk. as an investigator, don, how do you handle this? he's awake and they're saying he's talking. do you come right at it and say, why did you do this? how do you handle it? >> you know, mike, in the course of an investigation, they're not that many times that you go right to the person who is the accused, and you start to get information. investigators have got to go in all directions from fort hood and try and figure out who they should be talking to and try to develop that information that way. in fact, a lot of times it's
much better to go outside and get the information so that you as the investigator, you have the knowledge, and therefore, if you do get a chance, if the suspect does talk, then you know when they're lying to you, or when they're telling you something that's just unbelievable. >> okay. since it began, the question is why. we're finding out here that he might have unveiled his motive right out of the gate as we hear from -- this is private first class joseph foster, survivor, shot in the hip. also a hero, helped others after he was shot. here is his account as he witnessed the shooting. >> i was sitting in what they call station 13. it's where we get basically our final outs of our rsb system. and i was sitting in about the second row back when the assailant stood up, and yelled allah akbar in arabic, and he
opened fire. >> don, as an investigator, where do you take that? what's your next step? look at his computer, things like that? what's next? >> mike, again, i've said from day one that you cannot take this case, or most any other case, just on what you see right at that point in time there. you've got to expand your investigation. the and certainly under this circumstance, here's a person that was disgruntled. you probably have that little bit of information. but you've got to move to the neighborhood, and to other places where he was maybe born. you've got to move that investigation. that's why, mike, they had to bring in all of the agencies, all the law enforcement agencies with the appropriate military people in there as well. >> okay. as we've mentioned, tom, hasan's mother's funeral was held at the mosque where two of the september 11th hijackers attended. how does that figure into this? >> this is not a who dun it
case. there's little doubt as to who the shooter is. very little doubt they have him in custody. a lot of the investigators looking at at this point is potential motives. when this case first broke there was a lot of talk, maybe it was stresses, and so forth of him being in the military. and hearing all the stories of other soldiers. then it comes out he's never been deployed before. we know he's a high ranking military officer. he's got a prestigious agree and occupation. so now we're kind of moving towards, hey, was this radical islam that was at play here. there's a lot to suggest that. first his association with on war alaqua, the radical imam who was involved with preaching to the -- at least two or three of the september 11th hijackers. he was attending the same mosque as him. and apparently had his mother's funeral at the same mosque. there's also been at least a preliminary trail of websites that he's been on. there's one posted attributable to him where he compares a suicide bomber to someone who
falls on a grenade to protect his fellow soldiers. there's a lot of information coming out very quickly to show that this is someone who may have been following a very misguided version of the islamic faith, that wound up radicalizing him to this point. >> we're going to have much more on the suspect. the startling revelations. we want to remember the 13 lives claimed tragically. let's pay tribute to them right now.
sglerchlts this story we continue to follow. a gruesome story. help me out here, how is a suspected serial killer a good boyfriend? anthony sowell charged with aggravated murder, aggravated assault, kidnapping. 11 bodies found in his home in clevela cleveland, ohio. a house wreaked of death. here is a girlfriend talking to woio. >> i was wondering why would he do this. he took good care of me. i never thought no bodies was in the house. >> did you ever smell anything funny in the house? >> yeah, i smelled stuff. but he always told me, at first he said it was his stepmother
downstarls. i guess he told me he was making sausages. >> michelle, investigative journalist. and zack reed joins us as well. we'll take your calls as well, 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. i've got to start there, stacey. i've got to start with you on this one. when we hear this, how could someone be accused of killing at least 11, but on the other hand you have a girlfriend saying he took good care of me? how is that? >> well, taking good care of somebody is very relative. good care of in her mind might have been that he fed her and put a roof over her head. i would want to get more to the bottom of exactly what was so great about their relationship. >> michelle, in all your years of covering cases, your work as an investigative journalist, you ever heard anything like that, someone accused of something so heinous, yet on the other someone saying such a good boyfriend? >> i haven't. this case blows my mind, really, to have this many bodies
literally rotting inside of a house. and from what we know of right now, one of the victims was actually reported missing in 2007 and could have been in the house for as long as two years. up to that point it's very disturbing also, i just got word that the eighth and ninth victims have been identified. and i do want to give you their names right now. unfortunately, janice webb and kim smith were identified this afternoon. this is coming from the cleveland police. cadaver dogs continue to search throughout the neighborhood, abandoned houses and other areas to see if there are other bodies placed throughout this particular neighborhood along imperial avenue, mike. >> let's bring in zachary councilman in cleveland. the body could have been there as 2007, as gruesome as that is. we've also heard other people say that the smell could be -- could have been there at least three years, which takes us back to '06. you tried to do something about the smell. what happened? >> i received a phone call in 2007 from one of the residents
that lived directly across the street that said, and i quote, there's an odor in the neighborhood and it smells like a dead person. >> so what action did you take from there? >> we then contacted the health department. we contacted the health department, and that's the reason that i will continue to call for independent evaluation to see, how do we get from a call from a resident to the health department to finding now 11 bodies in that community, because as i've said, it wasn't the smell of rotten meat and she didn't say it was the smell of a dead animal, she said clearly it smelled like a dead person. >> because it sounds like raised sausage erroneously has been to blame the last couple of years? >> clearly. clearly. i apologized to ray. and he didn't even let me get the last word out because we both understood that for years, we believed it was raised sausage. he clearly had a good cover.
but the smell, the smell was clearly the smell of rotten, dead flesh throughout that entire community. >> wow. michelle, as we've covered this, what are people saying about that? how long does that smell go back, and what was being done? councilman trying something. did others try, or was it all on raised sausage to change their pipes or whatever they did? >> the councilman and i have had numerous conversations about this off the air, mike. also, i have contacted the director of the health department. he said they received 20,000 complaints throughout the year. throughout those complaints, the one complaint in 2007 that the councilman did actually, his office did call in, they don't have a record of. but what they do have a record of is a complaint that was called in 2008 from one block over. and they actually sent an inspector out to the neighborhood. they did an air quality test. it came up negative. now, again, this is one block over, that a neighbor is complaining about this. and then they moved on. i also talked to the owner, and one of the relatives from ray's
sausage factory, what they told me is that they've spent thousands of dollars replacing the sewage lines, the grease traps, everything to try to make this smell better, because they were told from numerous people throughout the neighborhood and the community it was probably coming from their site. now, keep in mind, ray's sausage factory, they have a daily inspector that goes there every day for an hour. and they also have federal inspections to comply with. so out of all those inspectors and all of those people in that building for all of those years, allegedly these complaints were coming in, that they couldn't find the source of the problem. >> that's why i continued to say that the system itself is broken. when you have so many individuals from the public sector that have touched this particular location, and not one of these individuals, including myself, could figure out that this smell was not from rotten meat, it was not from dead animals, it was from rotten, dead, decaying bodies. >> let me ask you this, councilman. we're finding out the mayor's
niece lived with this guy in that home. any comment from the mayor? how is the mayor reacting to these revelations? >> obviously, anybody who came into interaction with this individual and came out of that house alive was lucky. whether the mayor's niece, whether you're just somebody in the neighborhood, you were just lucky to get out of that house. because this is a madman who deserved to be in jail and hopefully something else would happen to this individual. >> when we come back, we're going to listen to one of the fortunate people who dealt with him. it's a riveting story. her name is tonya daas. she claims he attacked her and she had to plead for her life.
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. continuing our conversation about alleged serial killer, anthony sowell. he's accused of killing at least 11. crystal is with us in iowa. your comment or question here? >> caller: i have a question. if he was a registered sex offender and going on websites looking for relations and whatever, aren't they supposed to be monitoring that? >> that's one of the first questions we have. he started up on these websites a month after he got out of jail. this was in june of 2005. michelle segona, that's one of the infuriating angles of this. he was on these websites right
after he got out of jail? >> the requirements of the sheriff's office they told me early on in this investigation was, anthony sowell was required to check in with them once a year. he required with all of the check-ins. and then fast forwarding a little bit to this year, the requirements changed where he had to check in once every 90 days. when the investigators checked on him on september 22nd, there was actually a random spot check at that time. according to this particular requirement, and digging into it a little bit more, i am waiting for word back on exactly if they were allowed to go in, and to search his particular computer or check up on those websites. i know they were not allowed to go inside the home. it does vary, i want to mention, from state to state. >> you mentioned that. we want to hear the riveting account from tonya daas. she alleges this man, anthony sowell, attacked her. here's her account of the attack and how she survived.
>> he caught me offguard. he leaped on me like this. >> so you're on the bed here? >> i'm on the corner of the bed. but when he grabbed me, he pushed me back up on the bed like this. okay? i'm back on the bed. trying to -- trying to get up, but i couldn't. so i'm holding my breath and tried to take my, you know, stiff my neck so he couldn't. but he had a grip on my throat. and my eyes started -- really, i started -- i couldn't breathe, couldn't talk. he said, bitch, knock on the floor three times if you want to live. and i did like this. he was still choking me. and he was like, bitch, you could be another bitch in the street dead, and nobody give a [ bleep ] about you. and i started crying. i was like, why you got to act
like that, tony? he said, oh, you think i'm playing? bitch, take your clothes off. >> now, she, again, obviously survived that. she said she fell asleep, woke up the next morning, was able to give a story about how she had to go to the hospital to see her daughter. she escapes but now is dealing with tremendous guilt. the tears were flowing in that interview with susan candiotti. she even had to hug her to console her at one point. i want to go back to stayy kaiser. people wonder why not report this. let's start there. what do you think the mindset is of tonya? >> she may not have reported it because she was afraid of the consequences on herself or whether he might come back and kill her. there's another piece, where she did go to where he lived. there's shame in that. even though she did not ask to be victimized, there is shame that she walked into his house and there and available. >> what about the guilt she's dealing with now, stacy? >> at the same time i think she's counting her blessings for
living. i really do think there's a lot of guilt. i think she believes and knows that if she had come out sooner, she might have saved some lives. >> i want to go back to councilman reed. are you concerned about some of the victims' families are going to -- they want answers. they want to know how a guy like this did what he did for a number of years? >> not only the victims, the whole community. >> yeah. >> the whole community. i think the nation is sitting around wondering how it was allowed to go on for this long. when you look at the common denominator, race had something to do with it, no doubt. but the common denominator that i continue to see is the addiction. the addiction of these young ladies that got lured into this house. that right there has to say, how do we now go out and look at individuals who are addicted and how do we treat them when they become missing. >> well put, councilman. thanks so much. we appreciate it. coming up, chris brown opens up again about his attack on
welcome back to "prime news" on hln. singer chris brown is opening up about beating up his then girlfriend, singer rihanna. he said he came to terms with the fact that he was capable of such violence. chris brown, the interview. >> within myself, it's not a work in progress because i owned up to it. i accepted the fact totally. i'm doing everything to make amends and everything, to make my life better and other people's lives better. but to certain people in the public, maybe it's not everything that they anticipated or expected. so hopefully over time, the expectations can change.
>> all right. there you have it. chris brown, what do you think? is this the right move, taking your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. were you convinced by what he said? do you think he's op the right track? i want to bring in jane velez-mitchell host of "issues" at the top of the hour. also joining us, kim serafin. jane, do you think he's in a good place and on the right track to get his life in order? >> well, yes and no. the i heard some encouraging things. i heard some discouraging things. i was very encouraged him to say just now that he's in the process of making amends, cleaning up the mess he's made. trying to focus on being of service. he is doing community service and getting therapy. that's all good. but i'm concerned that he's still very, very focused on how the public perceives him. and is really very interested in the fact that, oh, the public's divided 50/50 about me, some thing i'm fantastic, others want
to see me in jail. he shouldn't be worried about that. really, it's not about appearances. you can save your face and save your behind. he's got to save his behind. >> i agree with you. i thought it was poor timing on his part. and i don't know if it was his call or if it was mtv's call to have his interview before rihanna's. i thought sheer decency, you let her speak first, and if you want to have your interview come after the fact, i think that was a bad pr move right out of the gate. i agree with you, jane. let's listen to a little bit of him really concerned about, again, like you're saying, public opinion. you stow yourself away for six months and get yourself together. but he's out in the public eye and worried about what the public thinks. here's chris brown talking about just that. >> it hurts. i'm still a young dude, so like i haven't got past this stage of being able to take people's negative comments and things and be like, oh, i'm not worried about that.
it hurts. i'm human. so when i hear certain things and they say this, or if i go somewhere and hear somebody be rude about it, it's just like, man, it's a mistake. i made a big mistake. >> jane, to your point there, he's listening to what people are saying. is he putting too much credence in what people are saying at this point? >> and there are a lot of i, i, i, me, me, mes in that. the person really hurting is rihanna after she was beaten up. he needs to focus on how he can undo that damage and make amends. which he did use that phrase. i thought that was encouraging. but he's not quite there yet. >> exactly. let's bring in kim ser a fan. jane makes a good point. i noticed that as well. not a lot of heart-felt sympathy concerning rihanna, which i thought that's where you begin. go ahead, kim. >> exactly. that's what jumped out at me, too, from this interview. number one, that he was so concerned about the public perception of him. compare that to what rihanna was
saying in her "20/20" interview. and what she was concerned about is being a bad influence for young girls. she said that sort of changed everything for her, that she didn't want to have and let a y girl get hurt because of her. it's very, very different when you compare the two. when asked if she hates chris, she says no, i want him to have a great career, i want him to do well, i want him to grow up, and he really doesn't have the same things to say about her except putting out a statement that says he thinks that this should remain private between the two of them. >> let me read that statement. here it is. this was chris brown's statement to mtv the day that his and rihanna's interview aired. while i respect rihanna's right to discuss the specific events of february 8th, i maintain my position that all the details should remain a private matter between us. i do appreciate her support and wish her the best. i'm extremely sorry for what i did and i accept accountability for my actions. great point, kim and jane, you don't dictate to the victim what they do and when they say what they want to say. right? >> not only that, but the downside of fame is when your'
famous and beat somebody to a pulp, people will find out about it and comment on it. that is the downside of fame. an anonymous person can do the same thing and maybe their neighbors will know and that's it but the interesting thing about fame is that everybody wants to experience only the positive aspects of it and not the down side but that's not how it works. it works that when you're famous and something like this happens, the entire world is going to weigh in on it and you have to just accept that because you cannot change it. you have to accept that fact. >> exactly. all right. we will take a quick break. we'll be watching "issues" with jane coming up at the top of the hour. when we come back on the other hand, want to hear what you think. what are you seeing from chris brown? do you see a man who is saying the right things, doing the right things? is rihanna the one that is heartfelt? that's what it seems like to me. @
tonight, stomach-churning new allegations in the case against the alleged cleveland strangler. at least 11 bodies have been found. women murdered and left to rot. now, a major bombshell from city hall. the mayor of cleveland admits his niece was dating anthony sowell and living in the corpse filled house. the mayor says the two did drugs together until she moved out just last year. you will not believe what else she's saying. plus living a nightmare. summer thompson's mom speaking out on the third week anniversary of her daughter's murder. the 7-year-old abducted, killed, dumped in the trash. the killer still on the loose. now cops searching for summer's pink lunchbag. could this be the key to finding her killer?
and what about the construction workers who reportedly say they talked to the little girl? and an earth-shattering discovery in the casey anthony case. the fbi now says a bottle and syringe found near little kay leigh's body contained traces of chloroform. prosecutors are alleging casey anthony injected her own daughter with chloroform. is this the smoking gun prosecutors need? also, toxic secrets of a soccer mom. the woman who killed eight people, including herself while driving the wrong way on the highway, was allegedly nauseated on the side of the road just minutes before the fatal wreck. now published reports quote family members as claiming the wrong way wife smoked pot on a regular basis. remember her husband said there was no way, no how his wife was intoxicated during the wreck. even saying he never saw his wife drunk. so what really happened in the minutes before that horrific crash? "issues" starts now. tonight, he's accused of being
the cleveland strangler. with 11 corpses found on his property and there is a shocking new bombshell development in this killing spree that is beyond belief. get this. the girlfriend of suspected serial killer anthony sowell is speaking out and guess what? she is the mayor's niece. >> i lived with him from 2005 to 2007. he didn't kill me but he killed all these girls. >> were you ever there when he had other women there or -- >> no. he did it when i wasn't -- he did it when i wasn't there. >> how in the world did the mayor's niece, lori frazier, live with rotting bodies and not know it? you will hear her explanation in just a moment. as for her uncle, mayor frank jackson, he said quote, my niece would probably fit the same profile of many victims, so she is fortunate, very fortunate, end quote. mayor jackson was just re-elected last week and has
promised to investigate why it took cops so long to bust sowell. but we have a question for the mayor. what exactly did you, mayor, find out your niece was living with a monster in a pile of bodies that was producing an overwhelming stench? also tonight, new accusations that police missed several chances to arrest sowell. his neighbor says just two weeks ago, he found sowell, anthony sowell, naked in the bushes, standing over a woman who was bloodied, bruised and also naked. the neighbors say he called cops but insists the cops never came to interview him. how is that possible? we're also hearing from more of sowell's alleged victims. one of them recounted her nightmare for cnn's susan candiotti. >> he caught me off-guard. he leaped on me like this. >> reporter: so you're on the bed here? >> i'm on the corner of the bed. but when he grabbed me, pushed me back up on the bed like this,
okay, i'm trying to -- trying to finagle up out of it but i couldn't. so i held my breath and tried to take my, you know, just my neck forward but he had a grip on my throat. >> what an extraordinary interview. she says her history of drug-related crime made her too scared to report it to cops. we have heard similar stories from other alleged victims. tonight, here on "issues," we will look at the major role drugs and drug addiction played in this particular case. and i also want to hear from you about this horrifying case. what's your theory? call me. 1-877-jvm-says. 1-877-586-7297. i want to welcome my fantastic panel. ken sealy, addiction specialist, famed interventionist and author of "face it and fix it." joe tacapeno, noted criminal defense attorney.
john lucich, former criminal investigator and we're delighted to have judge greg mathis of the judge mathis show. first, straight out to famed investigative reporter michelle segona of michelle segona.com. michel michelle, dare we ask what is the very latest? >> the very latest in this investigation is the eighth and ninth victim were just identified about an hour ago, and they are unfortunately janice d. webb and also kim yvette smith. in addition, an indictment. prosecutor's office filed an indictment against anthony sowell today charging him with one count of attempted murder, two counts of rape, two counts of kidnapping, two counts of felonious assault based on the incident that happened september 22nd, 2009, when that woman allegedly fell off of his balcony or excuse me, that was the october 20th incident. this is the incident where the woman went to police and they were trying to track her down for about a month before they got together with her and then were able to go and serve that
search warrant on october 29th, 2009. i have that indictment right here. in addition, there's an fbi serial killer team on the scene right now. it's a team of top scientists from the fbi. i have an entire serial killer report from the fbi on my website at michelle segona.com that your viewers can read and one other thing. i just got off the phone with the police department. the police chief there says a woman has come forward from the east coast claiming that sowell had raped her in 1979 and so they're trying to piece together some of that information right now, and what he says is that the statute of limitations in california only goes for ten years, but they're still trying to pull up some information for this woman and give her closure if this did, in fact, happen to her. >> oh, my god. where does it end? how many more victims are going to come forward? right now, as we speak, in cleveland, a vigil is about to
get under way and it may have already started. judy martin, director of survivors victims of tragedy inc., who is basically a victims rights advocate, is there at the vigil. judy, can you hear us? >> yes, i can. >> can you paint a picture of how close is the vigil to the house of horrors, first of all, and can you paint a picture of what's going on there? what is the mood and who's gathered? >> well, there are about 100 people, 150 people gathered so far. we're right across the street from the house where all the bodies were found. as i'm sitting here, i'm sitting here right on the corner, i can see people pulling up and being dropped off so people can go park their cars and walk back. we're here for the victims of this horrible tragedy. we're also here for victims of cold cases, because we need to bring attention to all of this. but we can't forget about all the missing persons that may be
in this county and elsewhere that are not in this house. we hope they're not. we hope that they're found but we need a missing persons department in this county so this doesn't happen again. we need to know when there's a cluster of missing person cases, we need to know when someone lives in a suburb that goes missing in cleveland or vice versa. we need this information traded and exchanged and collected in one place so that we can collate all this information. >> we need law enforcement to take it seriously when a woman disappears, no matter what. no matter whether she's a drug addict, no matter whether she's a street person, no matter whether she's a prostitute. it doesn't matter who you are. we are all citizens of this country and we deserve to be treated with respect by law enforcement and they admittedly
have a very, very difficult job. now, i want to get back to the mayor's niece because this is a mind-blower. >> we also need to listen to the families. when families come forward and say that there's something different about this, if this person never took off before or was gone for a few days, the families know when something's different and law enforcement needs to listen to the families. if they had listened to the families who said that -- >> right. judy, i want to bring in judge greg mathis from the judge mathis show. listen, there are calls now, judge, for a federal investigation because so many people said that the relatives of missing women claim cops would joke and belittle them when they asked for help finding their missing family member. the mother of the first woman identified inside this house said the cops told her quote, they told me to wait awhile because she would return once all the drugs were gone, ha, ha, ha. she was found dead in the house
of horrors. what do you make of it? >> first of all, it's my belief that many in law enforcement and in other parts of society devalue the lives of the poor and the minorities. whether they're on drugs or not. you know they value the lives of all the hollywood drug addicts so i don't think it's as much involving drugs as it is devaluing the life of the poor and the minorities. secondly, it's hard for me to believe that 11 missing women could be reported in the same neighborhood and you not be able to find any of them or be able to investigate in a manner that would reveal any tips. that's hard for me to believe. thirdly, i think that the sex offender registry law should be changed or amended. thises a perfect example of how the neighborhood should have known, the neighborhood should have been instructed that there was a sex offender in their midst. >> it's not just the cops. it's everybody. with all the bodies piled up inside sowell's house, it's
really unbelievable any woman made it out alive. tanja doss says she was drinking with sowell when he just snapped. listen to her. it's amazing. >> he was still choking me. he was like [ bleep ] you could be another [ bleep ] in the street dead and wouldn't nobody give a [ bleep ] about you. i started crying. i was like why you got to act like that, tony? he said oh, you think i'm playing? [ bleep ] take your clothes off. >> she didn't report it because her background isn't squeaky clean, she said. so many of the victims that have been identified have one thing in common. we only have a couple seconds before the break but we're going to discuss this more on the other end. is that they were drug addicts and had criminal history and that's why he picked them. according to one woman, he said you're just another crack bleep, nobody's going to care. >> what about the other people that -- >> hold on. i'm asking ken sealy. >> yeah, jane, thanks. the part that i'm seeing in this
and that disappoints me is that the mayor's niece was there for two years. why didn't he see the red flags and take action on them, and maybe a lot of lives could have been saved. two years is an awful long time for somebody to just sit there and watch their niece's behavior. she had to be down there with them to be living with that. >> none of it makes any sense, people. none of it makes sense that you could live in a stench-filled house for two years with bodies rotting next to you, doing drugs and you don't notice it? more on the alleged cleveland strangler in just a bit. we're also taking your calls. 1-877-jvm-says. 1-877-586-7297. plus, do prosecutors have the smoking gun in the casey anthony case? investigators found a syringe with traces of chloroform. can it be traced to murder? but first, rocked by tragedy. an entire community searching for answers. a vigil going on as we speak.
>> it's a heartbreaker. that is the sister of a victim but here is my big issue tonight. all you have to do in this case is follow the drugs. most of the victims who have been identified so far had criminal records and a history of drug abuse. sowell allegedly used alcohol and drugs to lure them into his house of horrors. take a look at his mug shot. is this the face of a drug addicted killer? one alleged victim says sowell's eyes glowed like the devil when he attacked her. so ken sealy, you're the addiction specialist. when you've got drugs involved, are people likely to ignore the stench of death if they're craving that drug? are people likely to put themselves at risk knowing that this place is creepy but if there's drugs in there, i'm going to go in there and i'm going to get those drugs? >> yeah, you're absolutely right, jane. they don't care. the addict does not care what is happening. they're going to do what's necessary to get their fix. they're just not going to stand
by and say that well, i won't go there. they'll kill people to get their drugs and you put it so clearly, follow the drug. follow the drug and you will find where the problems lie. we can help so many people. >> yeah. i mean, john, you're the will criminal investigator. it would seem that he was aware of the fact that nobody was going to look for these women and that he allegedly picked his women very carefully. women with drug issues. >> there's no doubt about it, jane. in fact, this is a failure of all levels of government. it's more than just a police department here. we had the health department involved when they went to the sausage place, no doubt. we had dep involved when they came out and replaced the sewer lines. and even after three years, this smell doesn't go away and no one keeps looking? and we had a parole officer allegedly go to the front door and no one smells anything in this house, enough to get a warrant? everybody failed these people, no doubt about it. >> joe tacopena, how will this federal investigation unfold if
there is a federal investigation into how police handled this? >> it's very tough. i have been involved in a number of these, jane. it's very tough to sort of pin this on the police. i understand the frustration. police work is an imperfect science. but let me say this. unlike cases involving missing children, for police to really ramp up an investigation regarding a missing adult, they need clear evidence of foul play. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. can i just say this, joe? >> yeah. you can say it. >> a woman was naked, beaten and bloodied in the bushes outside sowell's house and he was standing naked on top of her. >> you're right. >> that's pretty clear. >> that's according to one -- that's according to one witness's alleged statement that he made to the police. if you ask the police, according to their records, i read all the statements the police have made, they have spent numerous hours on an almost daily basis looking for a lot of these women, doing everything they could. missing adult -- >> why didn't they just go into the house? go into the house because it smells. >> we don't live in that society where we can just go into the
house. >> wait. you can't get a search warrant if you find a naked woman out there on the ground and the stench -- >> they didn't find the naked woman. that's the problem. >> the ambulance took a naked woman away. >> but not from his property. there's no direct link to his property. you can't just say let's go into the house. it's great, it sounds good on tv but you can't just do it like that. >> you know what -- >> we have to leave it right there. obviously we will get back to this. we will stay on top of this and i thank you, fantastic panel. very disturbing stuff. switching gears, every day this week we will be saluting the troops on hln. today, robin meade brings us a special message from one very proud military mom to her soldier son. >> thanks, jane. our military salute today is from angela gaffner to her son, corey gaffener. she says corey is a wonderful young man with a lot of love in his heart for his family and for his country. >> hi, robin. this is angela gaffner out of texas. specialist corey gaffner's mom. i want to say i'm so proud of my
an explosive new lead in the murder of 7-year-old summer thompson. cops scoured this abandoned house for evidence. it is the last place summer was seen alive. take a look at it there. now america's most wanted reports construction workers were at that site and they admitted to cops they did see little summer. they say she came in through the gate, spoke to them, then left. how did summer just vanish into thin air? her mom admits she might have willingly gotten into a car with a stranger. here is mom on abc's "good morning america." >> that was one of the hardest questions i had to answer from the investigators. they asked me did i think would
she willingly get into a car with someone. to hear the word yes come out of my mouth got me. >> plus, police frantically searching for this pink piglet lunchbox and this pink tote bag. there are the missing items. they believe little somer was carrying these bags when she was abducted. could they be the key to finding her killer? straight out to my guests, profiler pat brown. pat, as a criminal profiler, tell us, could this killer have kept somer's lunchbox and bag and if so, why? >> well, jane, sometimes they do keep these souvenirs because -- >> can you hear us? >> yes. >> all right. well, i got to say that quite often, the criminals involved in a case like this will keep an item as a keepsake and pat brown, can you hear me now? >> i can hear you fine. >> yeah. pat, we were talking about this tote bag and the lunchbox. now, why would a criminal theoretically, hypothetically, keep it? >> well, sometimes it is a
souvenir. they love that crime that they committed so much, just like keeping it on their fireplace so they can look at it and say look what i did, isn't that exciting. other times what will happen is they will dump those items in a separate place which is a smart thing to do, not with the body, so that those things will be somewhere else. so they just may simply not have found them. >> somer's mom says she will not rest until her daughter's killer is found. here she is on abc's "good morning america." >> i feel like there's a piece of broken glass in front of me and i've got all the pieces to the broken glass, except for this one huge piece, and that's to catch the monster who did this. >> another possible lead, a sex offender was arrested in georgia. now, he was caught following two young boys home from school. authorities say there's no evidence linking these cases, but pat, police say there was a similar m.o. what's your take? could these be connected? >> i'm not overly impressed, jane, because simple fact is the m.o. is always the same when you're going after children. you look near schools and near where they're playing like at the playground. if he wasn't in town that day,
if he wasn't visiting his cousin on that street, i'm not going to buy that's connected at all. >> what about these construction workers? we hadn't heard about them until today. suddenly, oh, the abandoned house has construction workers and they talked to the little girl? that's strange. >> that's kind of creepy, actually, yeah, because one of the things i wonder about, somer's father actually said her both body was found with soot on it. if that's true, that would be very, very interesting because if she was killed in that house and somebody on the street grabbed her and dragged her into that house, wasn't connected with that location, he would leave her there and keep on running but somebody connected to that location killed that child, he wouldn't want her body found there. he would have to move her into a trash bin, not right in front of the house, a trash container some place else so that it wouldn't be connected with the home. so that's very interesting to me. i would be looking very carefully at who was at that particular house that day. >> and you know they are interviewing all those construction workers. they have not eliminated anyone. sadly, they do not have any suspects in this case. thank you, pat brown. from one tragedy to another.
annette-an earth-shaking discovery in the casey anthony case. a bottle and syringe found near caylee's body contained traces of chloroform. with this new evidence, are prosecutors alleging casey anthony injected her own daughter with chloroform? is this the smoking gun needed to convict casey? also, toxic secrets of a soccer mom. the woman who killed eight people, including herself while driving the wrong way on the highway was allegedly nauseated on the side of the road just minutes before the fatal wreck. stunning new bombshells in the caylee anthony murder case. prosecutors released tons of new evidence and it will shock you.
this empty gatorade body was found near caylee's body. inside, traces of the knockout drug chloroform but also inside the bottle, a plastic baggie holding a syringe. get this, in that syringe, more phra traces of chloroform as well as testosterone. also revealed, photos of a baby doll found inside casey's car. prosecutors say more traces of chloroform were found on this doll. why is this evidence so very significant? investigators already discovered that somebody searched how to make chloroform on the anthony family computer. somebody also searched the term "neck breaking." investigators also found high levels of chloroform in the trunk of casey's car. is this a slam-dunk for the prosecution? is this syringe the smoking gun? casey still maintains she left little caylee with the nanny named zenaida gonzalez nobody can find. listen to this. >> hey, gorgeous, how you doing?
>> i look like hell. >> you know something? you really need to keep your spirit high for all this. >> i have. i haven't been crying while i've been in here. what message do you want me to give to zanny and to caylee? what do you want me to tell zanny? that she needs to return caylee? -- what her reasons are, i don't know. >> of course, prosecutors say zanny is fiction. straight out to my expert panel and joining us, wdbo radio reporter drew petromo as well as joe tacapeno. you have been tracking this case from the very start. connect the dots for us. why is this new chloroform evidence so very significant? >> well, chloroform has always been very important to the state's case against casey anthony. you hit on it earlier. the search is on casey's computer for how to make chloroform, also chloroform was found in the trunk of casey anthony's car.
so if they can somehow tie this syringe and this gatorade bottle back to casey anthony, like you said, it's a smoking gun that would prove that or at least show, probably convince a jury that it was casey anthony that injected her. of course, toxicology cannot prove that that's how she died. the medical examiner ruled it a homicide but by unknown means because the remains were so far gone along. so the state has a lot of work to do but if they can prove that this syringe was casey anthony's, that she bought it, that she bought the gatorade bottle, it would be very big for their case. >> john, you're the criminal investigator. chloroform could be used as a knockout drug and as this information was coming in, there were theories that well, maybe she wanted to go out dancing and she wanted the child to go to sleep and she put a little chloroform on a cloth and didn't realize what she was doing. but when you bring in the element of a syringe, you are talking about a totally different situation, are you not? >> yeah. but the problem here is that the body's been decomposed and we just have bones left over.
this woman was the last one to be seen alive with the baby. she lied to investigators and she was the one driving the car that had the chloroform in it, that had the dna and the little piece of hair that came from a dead anthony and since casey's alive, we know it must have come from caylee. this last piece of evidence is just another nail in casey's coffin and that's the point we need to get to. >> remember cindy anthony's chilling 911 call. she talked about smelling a dead body in her daughter's car. listen. >> cindy later took that back and blamed the smell on rotting pizza. however, now there is more disturbing evidence. joe, coffin flies discovered
buzzing around a bag of trash found in casey's trunk. experts say the flies are drawn to decaying flesh. you know, cadaver dogs hit on casey's trunk, investigators tested the air in the trunk and found signs of decomposition, prosecutors say further testing of a hair showed there was a dead body at one point, decomposing in that trunk. casey's dad, you know he's a former cop, he told investigators he smelled death in the car. so joe tacopena, the defense is likely to argue a lot of that is junk science, but how do you argue against coffin flies? >> you know, i mean, coffin flies. these are flies. if there was pizza in that car, you know, flies would be on that car. i don't think that's the fact that wins the day for the prosecution. what i think wins the day and i think we don't need to really go much further than this, the chloroform evidence is bad. especially because it looks like it was one search for it on a computer and two, injected into a doll almost like as a
practice. but when you think about it, why would you really need chloroform on an infant? chloroform really is something that disables and renders someone helpless. probably not going to get that level of struggle from an infant if you wanted to kill an infant but here's the kicker. the fact that she waited a month to tell authorities that her daughter was missing by some babysitter is the fact that no 12 jurors will come together and say you know what, there's a reasonable explanation, this case hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. i don't think there's any way she gets around that fact. the rest of it is circumstantial evidence like a chainlink fence with each additional link, the fence gets stronger and stronger but the fact she waited 30 days, i don't see anyone being able to accept that. i can't. >> she didn't even wait 30 days. >> that is the big circumstantial evidence but the evidence we're getting in today is really forensics. tracy mclaughlin worked with bounty hunter leonard padilla. he first helped bail casey out of jail, then turned on her. she told investigators this
helper of padilla's that she was very alarmed when a conversation with casey turned to chloroform. listen what she had to say. >> >> so pat brown, it's clear casey was acquainted with chloroform. but here's what i don't understand. the testosterone. because to me, i think as a defense attorney, i would argue well, hey, some bodybuilder who was using testosterone killed this child. >> well, that would be a good defense and if casey knew somebody who used testosterone, they will try to blame it on him but it's far more likely that she needed an implement and if
she knew somebody who used testosterone, was familiar with that fact, she would have simply stolen it from him. so i don't think that takes her out of the picture. let's face it, we would have to have zanny in the house looking up stuff on the computer and in the car and at the crime scene. the problem with casey is she got too clever for her own good. she planned this fantastic scenario to get rid of her daughter as opposed to just doing something quite frankly, really simple. >> and she locked herself into this defense that may not work and it's the zanny the nanny defense. i'm sure we will be repeating that phrase over and over again in the coming months. thank you, fabulous panel. here's a question for you. does chris brown have any shame? he attacked rihanna nine months ago but now he thinks rihanna should have kept the details of the assault to herself. maybe he should have thought about that before punching her in the face. plus, explosive new details in the drunk driving mom who killed eight people in new york. new reports say her husband is changing his story that his wife was always clean and sober. what do you think? give us a holler. 1-877-jvm-says. 1-877-586-7297.
let's meet today's winner. tommy from arizona. tommy says he was a beer and whiskey blackout drunk, drinking cost him everything. three marriages, his house. rock bottom came when he was homeless and dying of his disease. then he found a clinic that helped him kick the habit. now married for seven years, tommy says he has been sober for 23 years and he's happier than ever. tommy, for sharing your really, really amazing, heartwarming, inspiring story of recovery, you're going to be getting an autographed copy of my new book "i want" plus a chance to win a trip here to new york city to visit me on the set of "issues." we'll have a fun time but a sober time. if you're struggling with addiction or know somebody who is, please check out my new book "i want" at cnn.com/jane. i promise you it can help.
coming up, published reports claim that diane schuler, the mom who killed eight people including herself after allegedly driving drunk and high in the wrong direction down a freeway, smoked pot daily despite her husband's claim that she was a perfect sober mom. that in a moment. but first, "top of the block the" tonight. oh, chris brown has been taking steps to try to resurrect his career after assaulting ex-girlfriend rihanna. here's what the pop star had to say to mtv about that terrible incident. >> what was i thinking? what is wrong with you, that's what i was thinking with myself. that's my thoughts basically now. it's like how do we get past it, how do you, chris, like talking to myself, how do you, chris, go from point a to point b. how do you learn from your mistake, turn it into a positive and help other people with the situation. and at the end of the day, become the person that you want to be. >> all right. so far, so good.
however, brown went on to talk about his fans and their perception of him. believing public opinion is split 50/50 on him. earth to chris. you appear to be stuck in a celebrity vortex. it's really thot about the fans. it's about right and wrong and you can't determine that by polling your fans. only you can make it right. that is tonight's "top of the block." are you ready for this? new claims about wrong way drunk driving killer mom paint her as a drinker and a regular pot smoker. shocking? not really. outrageous? you bet. "the new york post" reports five days after diane schuler smashed her mini van loaded with kids, including her own daughter, into an oncoming suv, her husband denial -- i mean daniel told cops she quote, smoked marijuana once in awhile to relieve the stress of work and the kids. but it gets worse than that. diane's sister-in-law now claims diane smoked pot on a quote, regular basis, that she quote,
didn't believe in medicine and would quote, smoke after the kids went to bed. as for the drinking, "the new york post" claims husband daniel has now admitted to cops that diane had two strawberry daiquiris two nights before the deadly crash. what's more, during the deadly drive, that dashgs witnesses say they saw diane apparently ne nauseated outside her car, leaning over by the side of the road throwing up. if these new explosive revelations are true, why then hold a news conference a week later and make this categorical statement. >> i go to bed every night knowing my heart is clear. she did not drink. she's not an alcoholic. listen to all that? she is not an alcoholic and my heart is clear every night when i go to bed. >> daniel and his media-hustling lawyer then went beyond denial, insisting the toxicology report which showed diane with a blood alcohol level more than three times the legal limit was wrong. my head's spinning. is yours?
give me a holler and let me know. welcome back to my fantastic expert panel and standing by on the phone, irving analick, the attorney for the bastardi family, two members of their family were killed, wiped out, in the car that was hit when she was going the wrong way. sir, what is your reaction to this new report claiming diane was a regular pot smoker? >> well, i'm not a bit surprised at all. because i heard the original statements from dan schuler when he was with his lawyer, dominic barbera, claim that notwithstanding with the autopsy reports, that there were substantial huge amounts of liquor, vodka, in the deceased's system and that there was a strong amount, huge amount of marijuana in her system.
i was amazed when they said that she was not an alcoholic, that she didn't use drugs, and i branded them as out and out liars and perpetrating a hoax upon the public. i think that -- to say the very least, an outrageous statement. i'm surprised this an attorney at law would even give currency -- >> sir, we're all confused as to why they decided to hold this news conference. let's recap and review. when the horrific story first broke, tox reports showed diane schuler had smoked pot as recently as 15 minutes before she plowed head-on into the suv with the bastardies in it. attorney dominic barbera for the husband of the woman driver was asked about that. listen to this. >> my client is a public safety officer in the nassau county under the police department. i will not allow any questions
about marijuana use at all. marijuana use is not a crime anymore. it's a public health violation but i don't want that answered. >> ken sealy, you're the addiction specialist. they're carrying on, beating their chests about she's not an alcoholic but they refuse to answer any questions about pot smoking. what does that tell you? >> you know, i like the way you talked about it, jane. you know, with these secrets, like your first book says, secrets can be murder. i understand where dan wants to protect his wife's, you know, innocence or protect, you know, the way he respects her, but in all honesty, he's killing people by hiding the secrets of the reality. if he comes out and tells the truth, so many more people could get help. i just don't like that people are burying the truth. come out, be truthful, tell what's really happening. i mean, it's evidence. we have all the evidence we
need. >> joe, let me ask you this. why hold this news conference? could it have been that they're afraid of criminal charges and a lawsuit and they figured well, the best defense is a good offense and figured, well, the best defense say good offense and we're going to come out and make all these statements that she's got a lump in her leg that's moving up and down or whatever? >> yeah, i generally don't find that to be helpful in dissuading prosecutors to -- quite honestly press conferences get the interest of law enforcement officials, particularly when you don't answer questions at press conferences. i don't understand the purpose of having a press conference saying -- it's like denying everything. well, what about marijuana? that i can't answer. i mean, it's almost -- might as well just say yes, okay, fine, you caught me. she did marijuana. you know, i don't get quite frankly why you hold a press conference and then not answer the questions that are pertinent to this investigation. look, dominic's a good lawyer. he sort of will have some method behind his madness perhaps, but i quite frankly don't get you why hold a press conference.
she had nourms medical condition, problems. one of them was an abscess which was almost two months old. she had diabetes at various levels. she also had a lump on her leg, and the lump on the leg, we're not sure what it was, but it was moving. >> you know, it would be funny if it weren't so tragic that he's using these bizarre excuses. and we did call him to try to get a comment on these latest reports. and you know, he's normally -- he loves the media.
but he's not talking tonight. debbie, illinois. your question or thought. >> caller: yes. i was calling to ask if they had done toxicology on the children to see if there was any marijuana in their system to prove that she was smoking it in the car. >> wow. that's a great question. irving. was there any tox tests done on the kids? >> none whatsoever. of course, they were not driving. so it would be almost irrelevant. but another thing i might point out is that diane schuler said that there was always a bottle of vodka in his car when they went to the mountains and back. >> but i have to disagree with you. it wouldn't be irrelevant because there's something that we're all familiar with called a contact high. and if she was smoking pot in the car and the kids were exposed to it, they might get a contact high, they might have traces of pot in their system. i know because i'm a recovering
alcoholic and i have to stay sober and if i even get a whiff of pot if i'm jogging or whatever i go in the other direction, i don't want to even smell it. nypd cop, let's talk about the nwpd now. this is another case. an nypd cop by the name of andrew kelly refused a blood alcohol test soon after running down a minister's daughter. seven hours passed. then he finally took the test. his blood alcohol registered zero. there was an uproar. that trick of the trade apparently didn't work for a second nypd cop kevin spellman involved in a very bad accident, refused a breathalyzer twice at the scene. his blood drawn five hours later. but this guy registered a 2.1, at least 2 1/2 times the legal limit. so even though they waited five hours, joe tacopina, he still came up drunk. now, what about the trusty dashboard video? remember wynonna judd's 2003 dui arrest and the sobriety tests? remember these scenes? we've seen these so many times with people stopped and they're interviewed and they've got to
walk a straight line and then they keel over. there she is. she's sitting down. she can't handle it. why not do that for the cops, joe tacopina? why don't we have this system in place so that we can see for ourselves whether these people are drunk or not? >> well, let's not jump to the cops are covering up for the cops argument right now. the cops are the ones who arrested these two cops. >> well, they didn't know they were cops when they pulled them over. let's face it. >> oh, they knew about three seconds later. they knew when they notified internal affairs to come to the scene that they were cops. so jane, the cops who made the arrest were cops. listen, not every new york police department cruiser is equipped with one of these cameras to -- you just don't have it. i have plenty of cases where there are individuals who are not police officers who don't have video of their interviews. the cops have said, the ones who are at the scene, are saying they had aultd ll the indicia o alcohol intake. the cops aren't trying to cover for these guys. and quite frankly sometimes those cameras don't always help. you have someone who's totally intoxicated that can walk a